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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
197
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 08:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
We heard in the fanfest presentation that only 10% of the paying players turn to "diverse play", 50% quits soon and 40% are just "leveling up their Raven". Obviously I cannot offer a serious fix for that, as addressing this issue needs complete, strategic level changes.
However I can offer a simple band-aid that will not fix the problem, but slows the bleeding of players. How? It doesn't take that much time to level up that Raven into a faction-fit Golem. After that, the solo player either quits or keeps upgrading the ship stupidly until he gets ganked and quits.
My suggestion is giving him something that takes a year or more to get: a supercarrier or titan.
These supers would be modifications and reskins of the original ones, called "Imperial issue Avatar" for example. Their largest modification would be no jump drive. Since supers can't take gates, this would lock them to the system they are built in. They would lose EWAR immunity, so their PvP value would be zero (an Ibis could tackle and disable one, literally), they would be exclusively a large status symbol for PvE players. While they would have some PvE use, it would be totally cost-ineffective, so the owner couldn't print ISK.
The highsec supercarriers (beside losing their jump ability and EWAR immunity) would be modified to be able to use normal drones, making them an extremely expensive mission boat. Since they can't dock, the user would need an alt to pick up and return the mission, making this a very dumb - but stylish - way of missioning.
The highsec titans would gain the ability to fit strip miners and a 100000 m3 ore bay. Their mining bonuses would be equal to the Mackinaw, so their 6 turrets would let them mine like 3 Macks. As a Leviathan has no turret hardpoints, it would get Rorqual-equal bonuses for mining links. Since they can't dock, they are bound to a second hauler account and they could only mine in one system, so they wouldn't make anyone rich. But hey, look at me, I'm mining in a titan!
These ships would make a solo PvE player busy and happy for a year or more until he gets it. He will probably quit after that, but EVE still won X month of subscription. And hey, some of them might even do something dumb like getting into limited engagement or keep it in a wardeccable corp. Or better: he learns that there is more in EVE than leveling your Raven.
They could be built like outposts. A pilot drops an "egg", a structure launched for himself which can only be attacked in war like POCOs, (you can't wardec an NPC corp) and has multi-million HP. Then he freights the capital components and BPC into its hold and starts building. After a month, the build is complete, he flies there in a pod, clicks "activate ship" and he is in his very new super. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
197
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 09:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Gigan Amilupar wrote:So, wait, let's see if I understand this. Instead of focusing their efforts on creating meaningful content and devising gameplay mechanics that encourage players to go out, be social and experience said content, you want CCP to implement a completely arbitrary and pointless piece of "endgame" content for the sole purpose of trying to milk a portion of their customer base out of as much money as possible?
This is called "MMO development".
I think CCP should stop being saints who want to give everyone a deep and meaningful content when every other competitor just gives them a random "boss" to kill after grinding for months. How is killing Garros Hellscream is more meaningful than a mining titan? Actually it's less meaningful, as after the next expansion everyone will level to 100 and can solo him, while the titan will forever will be the biggest ship in EVE. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
197
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 10:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:How long do you think you'll survive in a 150b isk Mack? You have any idea how much EHP a titan has? Takes a few catas to chew it down. Also, it's closer to 80B unless you officer fit it. Real titans are expensive because it's hard to build them, while these could be built by anyone. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
197
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 10:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote: And then wardecdced by anyone, and then killed by anyone...
No wonder you guys die easily to Lemmings. Knowing about highsec mechanics isn't your strength. Hint: you can't wardec the NPC corp. Hopefully the pilot isn't a complete idiot to be in any other corp. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
197
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 10:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Loki106 wrote: Hint: some people like to socialize with other players
And having your supercapital pilot in the NPC corp makes it impossible to talk with people? My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
197
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 10:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:And what's the point? What does it do? Why would anyone bother? Even covering thier navy raven in officer mods actually serves a purpose, what does this DO?
What does ANYTHING in a video game do? Why do people grind structures to flip a sov? Both are "achievements", very visible accomplishments in the game. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
198
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 19:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Abla Tive wrote:I *love* the idea of being able to engage in a big PvE building project.
In many ways it would be like MMO housing. A place to decorate and show off.
The titan as described by Gevlon would be too useful in that it chew up that systems roid belts far too easily.
Why not change the project into creating a "micro-worm hole".
The micro worm hole would be password protected (i.e. you have to synchronize your drive to match) and It would generate a micro-sized system behind it. This system would have a few token resources and you could build your own station! in it.
Yes, player housing is a good parallel. Players want to build something big for themselves. However implementing proper housing would be huge developer work. These supers would need some ship reskins and done. Quick, simple and doesn't affect the gameplay of other people. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
202
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 04:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
It's funny how the 10% people cry about a suggestion that doesn't target them. While you might don't care about them quitting, CCP does, hence the famous chart shown in Fanfest.
It's not like it would take huge dev resources (a few new skins and ship stats, CCP made more as an experiment just now). "I wouldn't use this feature, so it's bad" is dumb. It's not for you. Move along.
Funny but not a single commenter said "this change would be bad for solo players". My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
202
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 05:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Quote: Creating effectively ungankable super mining ships would definitely affect more than 10% of the player base. I can imagine a multiboxer with 10 of those things mining... And it would be horrible for solo players. Putting solo players into ships that they can't leave & can't dock in would not be good for them in any way I can think of.
I also recall one of the Dev's saying something along the lines that once a player gets a Titan, they are extremely likely to leave EVE. (I don't recall the exact wording, I might have to see if I can find some info on it.)
Multiboxing mining titans would be dumb. They couldn't follow Ice spawns, nor they could jump to other system when the current is mined barren. Simple miners could grief them out by mining out that system first.
Yes, a Titan owner would likely leave. But before they do, they spend a year or more playing. Now they quit after reaching the Golem. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
202
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 08:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
And how is this idea stops them to camp a gate in a cruiser gang while talking to friends? Or do you afraid that people might pick getting a useless pixed ship over talking to you?
Also, socializing and grouping with players is surely fun for those who do the "socializing". The one who get to be "socialized" is probably not as happy. The forum is full of tears of people who engaged in "social interactions with other players". This case do you afraid that you lose out on some newbies who rather say "sorry, I want to do missions for my titan, I don't have time to go on your roam"? This case just tell them the truth: "it won't take long, just one gate into lowsec, and you don't even have to worry about returning to your clone station". My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
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Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
205
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 15:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
[quote=Khanh'rhh]CCP: "Our figures show one of the biggest indicators for players unsubscribing, is owning a supercap" Gevlon: "Then clearly the solution is MORE SUPERCAPS!!" /quote]
Did you actually read the OP? I know they'll unsub. But it's better if they unsub after 12-24 months with a "I won" feeling, than after 6 bitterly. What can a solo player do after reaching CNR or Golem?
I know, I know, they could engage with the community. But they don't want to. I know it's hard to accept but there are people who would rather unsub than play with you. How big percentage of the players? (1 - EVE_subscribers/WoW_subscribers)*100
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
205
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 16:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cassandra Aurilien wrote: It's a pretty big assumption that the number of subscribers that would be gained from this would be noticeable.
EVE has a fairly large amount of completion in the "Level up your Raven" market, as you put it. You have the X series (single player) & STO (MMO) which cover that method of game play far better than EVE does. I'm fairly sure that 99% of those players would leave far before they would build a Titan. Why put game resources into competing with single player games & free to play MMO's which already focus on that market?
Actuallly we can estimate pretty well how many subscriber-months we'd get: As we know, from 10 subscribers we get 5 who quit after 1-2 months. 4 who levels their Raven 1 who get engaged
We know from the CSM election dev-blog that the average age of the accounts among players who are really engaged is 3.6 years. Let's use that. So from 10 new players we get 5*1.5 = 8 months 4*6 = 24 months 1*3.6*12 = 43 months All together 75 months of subscription.
I suggest a way to continue solo play after Golem. Let's say 1 more month for the solo players on average. That's 4*1/0.75 = 5% extra income to CCP for practically zero development costs.
Khanh'rhh wrote: Go easy, he doesn't understand why this is morally reprehensible.
A Goon using the word "moral". Epic. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
207
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 04:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vlad Draculesti wrote: The entire agent system sucks frankly. It promotes people living in their own little worlds not interacting with others. Candy crush has more social interaction for god sake. Remove it and create a system where players have to set out to find things to do in the environment that boosts standings with factions rather than being spoon fed missions.
You also try to blame CCP for missioners not interacting with others. Why is it hard to believe that they just don't want to interact? Especially not with players whose only goal is to get their tears?
EVE is a unique designed MMO. You are flying in 3D space. There is player-run economy. You can build anything. Your gear isn't soulbound. The landscape is unique and beautifully painted. Lot of people would like to play here. However they don't want to pad your killboard, nor they see any reason to camp a gate just to kill some stranger who never wronged them.
These players don't interact with others, you can completely ignore them. Yet they bring revenues to CCP. Why is it so bad to give them an "endgame content". Yes, it's openly useless, like those mounts in WoW. But players still gather them. Let them! It doesn't stop you from doing anything.
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
209
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 15:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Soldarius wrote: If you want to add trophies, add NPC medals for every 1000 rats you've killed, or some other nonsense.
And what will happen with the ISK/LP/minerals you got while you collected the medal? It increases inflation, marketing out the newbies. According to CCP, every single day 3T ISK worth of stuff is created and only 1T worth destroyed. This creates the situation where every veteran is stupidly rich compared to the newbie who sits there with his Venture to mine and Dessie to run L1 missions.
The highsec supers would be a new form of item destruction. While they wouldn't explode, the materials inside them can be considered lost on built, since the super won't have any affect on the game and the pilot will likely unsubscribe soon.
The only alternative is a medal that you get for giving 10B ISK to some NPC. Which would be even more meaningless than a mining titan. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
209
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 18:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bohneik Itohn wrote: If the timestamp is working correctly (12:20 if it isn't) please note where Agent Missions stand on that graph, and where Bounties (which are highest in Null Sec and Incursions) stand.
Destruction doesn't remove much ISK from the game because the majority of what is being destroyed is being bought from players, not NPC's. It removes a lot of minerals from the game, and minerals are an investment in time, not ISK. The ISK does get washed through the tax system and is reduced in this manner but that is a smaller sink than Skills and the LP stores. The tax system sink is also padded heavily by activities that do not involve the destruction of hard goods, with the commodities and stock day traders who wash trillions of ISK through the tax system daily.
If you're going to claim that any suggestion you make is to improve the Economy of Eve, please have a basic understanding of that Economy first. And I mean BASIC....
Stop being dumb. The main ISK sink is LP store which produces faction ships, faction items and implants. These get destroyed, keeping the prices of these items high. If no one destroys LP store items, no one will buy them, so no one will produce them, so ISK won't be destroyed in the LP store.
Also, ISK, minerals and LP are interchangeable trough TIME. If you remove minerals from the system, the mineral prices (vs ISK) grow. This turns players to mining, away from ratting. Less ratters, less ISK injected.
PS: it's funny when people talk about BASIC economy to me when their total wealth is about my daily income. Or rather, daily broker fees. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
209
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 19:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pete Butcher wrote: Seriously dude, stop being dumb and think for a minute why this is probably THE worst idea ever made on this forum. A normal person would read the critique and try to refine or abandon it, not go full sperg about it. It's not your blog, you can't block people here. Start thinking already. Or not.
Can you quote critique listed on this topic besides the ones I responded to? Hint: "ahahaha fail" doesn't count. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
209
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 04:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pete Butcher wrote: Maybe a little hint - whether you think people are trolling you or not, most here did post more or less relevant arguments and you ignored most of it. Like I said, this isn't your blog and you must present a case for your idea instead of moderating out comments. Right now there's a LOT of critique and your only response was "I know it's bad, but it will make money for ccp". That is weak.
I think you misunderstand these forums. It's a communication between players and CCP, not between players. I don't have to convince anyone but the CCP dev checking these forums. So I can safely ignore trolls and "i dun like it" kiddies. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
209
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 11:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
Pete Butcher wrote: How do you expect to convince ccp if you can't convince a single person? If player opinion didn't matter, as you claim, then there would not be any idea forum but a simple email address to which you could send it. Only through discussion a good idea can be reached. And look at what you did now - instead of responding to arguments (not to trolling ofc) you claim, what we say doesn't matter and label us trolling kiddies. Once again - this is not your blog, where you assume everyone who disagrees with you is trolling so you can ignore them. Here you have to defend your idea with real arguments and you need strong ones in this particular case. Ignoring people won't help you in any way whether you like it or not. Grow up already and start talking to people.
Very simple: CCP is interested in the growth of EVE, while you are interested in upkeeping your status quo, which is that "carebears" are the lowest lifeform, existing only for one purpose: as "content" to you. You want them to be bored and miserable enough in highsec that they go to low or nullsec where you can farm them.
The forum is indeed here for discussion and its purpose is to let other players point out mistakes, speak up if a change would hurt them, making the dev's job easier. We aren't arguing with each other, we are presenting our positions to the dev, like two opposing lawyers to the judge.
It's indeed my interest to respond critics, either to show the dev that they are incorrect, or to fix my idea if they attack a side issue or mistake. I strongly assume that a dev is fully capable of figuring out that "this is an epic fail lol" is a useless argument. Again, I invite you to list the arguments from this topic against my idea, because I failed to find any besides the ones I responded to.
Note: I do not believe that those who spam this topic beside Goons are trolls (people who just want drama for laughs). They genuinely dislike the idea because it would be good for "carebears" who they either despise and want to drive off or pity and want to "save" and turn them into "fun ppl". I see neither hope to change their mind, nor I worry about the weight of their opinion front of the devs who proved many times that they are ready to ignore a minority opinion for the good of the game. The very statement in Fanfest was created because devs are fully aware that EVE can only keep a tiny minority of those who subscribed it, so probably liked the setting.
TLDR: none of the commenters (besides the few I answered to) even claimed that my suggestion would be bad for the 40% who play solo. They claimed that it would be bad for the 10%. Which is a non-issue here. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
210
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 16:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
Pete Butcher wrote: Oh there were lots of arguments (I gave you an example - look at my first post), but you just cannot respond to them, because you don't have a strong answer. On your blog, you just delete such comments; here you pretend they don't exist or are spam.
You still yet to mention one. Oh wait, here is a new poster who is not a troll!
Zan Shiro wrote: As your idea create many balance issues for wh's...
Then how about not letting any into WHs? As I've said, they would be built by an egg-like structure in space. How about you can't anchor them outside of highsec? The ratting bounty structures can't be anchored in WHs, so it must not be hard to code it. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
211
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 18:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
So your argument is something that was openly written to the OP: those ships are useless. Yes they are, there isn't a single task where they would be the best choice, if we consider the extreme effort needed to get them. You can't farm ISK or win PvP with them. They must be useless, otherwise they would be game breaking.
However the game is more than its mechanics. There isn't a ship implemented which can break a coalition, yet the dotbros broke when the wrong Falcon was shot. This is exactly why this thread has page 8, instead of being on page 8 where the random pointless ideas are . The highsec supers - while useless from the game mechanics point - would have a significant metagame change, something that the Goon troll squad despreately try to prevent: they would give PvE players a goal, a reason to focus in the game, instead of wandering to low-null for food of the nulseccers.
Imagine a dozen supers orbiting Perimiter gate during Burn Jita. They couldn't do anything PvP-wise, they could be ignored. But the fact that Goons can't touch them would greatly decrease their fun. The fun of Goons come from the suffering and despair of "pubbies". A pubbie should be in a vulnerable ship where Goons can slay him whenever they want. A "pubbie we can't harm" is an abomination in their eyes and a dream coming true for PvE players.
Sure, they would quit soon afterwards, but happily, with a "I won EVE" feeling. And - since EVE is a sandbox - he really did. His goal was to reach the point where he can finally give a finger to those who considered him a prey. Sure, there would be another answers, like joining a small-gang PvE corp and kill nullsec ratters and stragglers. But he isn't a PvP-er, doesn't want to be one and doesn't need you to "save him" from his carebear state. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
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Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
211
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 04:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
Pete Butcher wrote: His grr goons propaganda is so bad that I actually feel inclined to join you guys.
Just switch to your main and you are already there! My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
211
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 15:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
Pete Butcher wrote: Of course you could try to respond with counter-arguments to what people wrote here, but this is not your style, is it? I'm unable to figure out a good counter argument to "lololol fail". Please help me! My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
212
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 03:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lucrezzia wrote: Ahh, now I see the reason behind this "idea". How many ships you lost during last Burn Jita?
Zero. Despite I tried to lose an Orca very hard. But you are still spot on. The targets of this suggestion are the "carebears" who are constantly killed. They could say "I'm going to make the money and get the ship that no one can gank and I'll finally laugh on the gankers". And if he does, hello new subscriber for more than a year! My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
212
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 11:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Pete Butcher wrote:So the reason is not content for those players, but your vendetta? You still haven't given a worthy response on why a player would want such ship given all the negatives. After all, the target player audience only wants to be left alone and do their pve. Having such ship would:
- Make them waste resources on something they know is useless for reasons stated previously.
- Take their time from the very thing the want to do - pve.
- Force them to interact with other players, especially those who hurt them. Be aware that they choose such play style to NOT interact with anyone.
- Get them laughed at by people around for reasons stated previously.
- Get the titan lost anyway by one means or the other. Perma-bumping anyone? I wonder what would such player do knowing he can't warp away and he can't eject. Wait for DT and hope he logs in first afterwards? Such fun!
These ships are completely useless from the ISK/hour approach, true. Even if a mining titan mines faster than a Mackinaw, you'd probably have to mine for years before you paid for your investment.
However the game doesn't only have ISK/hour approach. The "carebear" very much dislike being ganked. It's not simply a cost to him, but a serious grief, hence the tears often provided to gankers. So these supers have a utility to this playerbase: being immune to ganking. Just because you or me don't consider this a worthy utility, it is there for them.
They can do PvE with their ships, so they can keep playing if they want. Before they have the ship, they have a reason to log in and do PvE. After all, why log in when you have your Golem?
Do you honestly think that a "carebear" gives a damn if Goons are laughing at him? Fellow carebears will consider him awesome. In WoW (natural habitat of carebears), the devs had to add extra mailboxes, because so many proud Mammoth owners were "orbiting" it that players simply couldn't get to it. What is the utility of a Mammoth in WoW? Absolutely, totally nothing. It does exactly what every other mount do. Actually, having a second mount has zero utility in WoW, yet most players have 100+. Again: just because you find the "carebears" aliens, and their motivations bizarre, they exist.
Bumping is annoying but not a loss. It can be easily countered by going AFK while you are at work or sleeping. You can orbit/approach while AFK, but can't bump. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
221
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 18:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:There's a funny irony here too - Gevlon claimed that anyone buying a mount is a moron and deserved only contempt and ridicule. Here, he claims a reason this idea will work is because it's like a mount.
Gevlon, most of the people you sneer down your nose at and imagine yourself superior to are a lot smarter than you, they just realise that playing a game is designed to be fun and that seeing it only as an exercise in collecting pretend money and pursuing some fanciful tribalism is a little odd.
There is one thing that Goons and I fully agree: those who play EVE solo, leveling their Raven aren't the brightest members of our species.
The difference is that Goons say "let's ruin their play and collect their tears on their way out of the game". I say "let's give them something that resembles a mount from their beloved WoW". Let's see which idea fits better into CCP's agenda.
Hint: CCP just updated NEX into "New Eden Store" with new interface to make it easier to purchase mounts and pets ... I mean ship skins and clothes which are even more useless than a mining titan. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
221
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 04:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:Sooooooooo, in other words "Yes my literal idea is that CCP call all their customers morons and design things and say "here, you're a moron, you would like this" and I don't see why this is a completely reprehensible idea or why it would dramatically backfire"?
This is exactly what World of Tanks and World of Warcraft does: openly consider their players morons and give them candy. If you fail to kill a boss in WoW on the easiest level, you get a 10% DPS, HPS and buffer buff (and of course no losses for your "death"). If you still fail to kill it, you can get epic gear for killing 10 wolves on the daily quest zone. They openly, with these words called this "welfare epics".
If you are a horrible player in WoT, you are placed into a team which can boost you to near-50% winrate. They even patented their matchmaking algorithm that creates "challenging" matches regardless of your skill.
The thing is that treating morons as morons does not backfire. Treating them as intelligent people and expecting them to float in the deep end of the pool is what backfires. For example the current EVE where all the PvE content can be consumed in a month or two and after that there is only PvP content against hardcore PvP-ers. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
222
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 16:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:WoW doesn't assume people are morons, it assumes some people play for fun, casually, don't take it seriously. So they don't assume that they are potetoes but potatoes. I understand now, thanks. I mean, seriously! If someone fails in a game, he describes this as "playing for fun" or "having a life" while others describe it as "scrub". It doesn't matter how we call it, it's the same thing!
Khanh'rhh wrote:You just described any match-making system that tries to place people with and against people of equal skill, which is universally accepted as a good idea. We should implement this universally accepted good idea in EVE! Whenever a Goonie gang catches a miner or ratter in null or engage in suicide gank against a freighter in highsev, they are teleported into an arena and pitted against an equally skilled and PvP gang! After all a freighter or miner is no challenge, so the fight against the PvP gang must be much more fun.
I know your job is to argue whatever I say, but don't you notice that I'm behaving like a model Goon here while you are arguing from the position of a cliche carebear?
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
225
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 03:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:You're basically asking CCP to create something and then say "Here, we think you're so stupid that you will think this is a good idea, please pay us for the privilege of sitting around and openly mocking you for buying into it". Short version: yes and they'll like it because they are different from us. Long version is on my blog. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
225
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 03:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
This isn't deliberately unfun. It's just something that you don't find fun.
I find mining much more fun than roaming in a frigate. No irony here. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
226
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Posted - 2014.05.30 13:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
Valleria Darkmoon wrote: You're talking about trying to farm the whales (people that spend ridiculous amounts of real cash on a single video game). Granted this typically applies to F2P games but in any event trying to farm whales is an appalling practice and the fact that some devs even have a term for it just goes to show how much trouble video games in general are in if devs are going to be so cynical that they'll stoop to any low and release any garbage as long as you open your wallet and then they'll try to reduce the backlash. The last thing EVE needs is the backlash that will be caused by CCP deliberately trying to milk all the money they can out of players who are going to contribute nothing to EVE and then quit. At first this idea isn't targeted to whales. Real titans are much more likely whale-hook, since it offers the illusion of power and becoming a member of the "elite". And buying a titan pilot + open market titan from PLEX-ed money is such a good idea in EVE! Yet I've seen no backlash from "I've wasted $5000 to buy a pixel ship and pilot and it was destroyed in the first day!" The idea is about openly useless, PvP-incapable, system-locked ships that serve no other purpose than a rare WoW-mount. I can't see how could anyone feel scammed by it.
Yes, I believe - like most real titan owners - the ones who completed this "epic mount quest" will quit. But only do so because in their mind they won the game. They won't be bitter or sad, simply say "OK, I did it, I'll be back when they add a more epic reward". My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
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Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
227
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Posted - 2014.05.30 19:11:00 -
[31] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote: If they want status symbols, then tournament ships, or hell, regular titans would do it better. I think even the dumbest carebear is capable of figuring out that these things wouldn't last for more than an hour in his possession. The point of the suggestion is a status symbol that they can keep.
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
228
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 05:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote: But it isn't a status symbol, it is literally a giant space-monument to their stupidity. it does nothing. It serves no purpose. It's only reason for existing is to milk more subscription money from people.
That is BAD. Any other form of status symbol actually serves a purpose. Serving a purpose is GOOD. Hell, even a revenant is more use than your highsec mining titan.
Again. Other MMOs (like the one with 20x more subscribers than EVE) are full of completely useless status symbols. The mining titan can at least mine. The missioning supercarrier can at least complete a mission faster than any subcap. They still don't worth their price due to their limitations (they can't jump out, so you can only mine local belts that will go empty fast or mission when you get one in your system). On the other hand a WoW mount that you have to grind for months give absolutely no benefit over the basic mount. Yet people farm it like crazy and then idle in crowded areas to show off.
Are they stupid? Yes they are. But they are clearly having fun, because they are grinding for their next mount. The only reason why mining titan owners would quit is that they have the most epic mount in EVE and can't upgrade. CCP could keep them even longer by giving them further upgrades, making their mining titan even more epic. Like for 100B worth of materials + old titan you get one in a different color and +5% mining yield, +10% EHP, +10% damage. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
229
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Posted - 2014.06.01 06:14:00 -
[33] - Quote
Sentamon wrote: Because it would mean a new power could rise up in highsec and take on the one small group of people that controls all of dullsec ... and that my friends is why they will fight like crazy to make sure it never happens.
Obviously not, but still, many would feel like they are working for some powerful ship. These players would quit disappointed, but hey, he was warned that these ships are PvP incapable so it's just them being dumb. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
230
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Posted - 2014.06.02 04:17:00 -
[34] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:The thing he's missing, is that the reason people use the Raven / Golem is because they can stick it in EFT, and see that it's a worthwhile progression path for their career, or they ask around and get advised to use certain ships for certain tasks. They are min/maxing. If they were min/maxing, empire faction missions and mining would be the last thing they'd do. After all, these are literally the worst ways of getting ISK.
Sisters of EVE LP is 2200 ISK. Thukker Tribe is 3000. Both are having agents in highsec. Yet the highsec players are missioning for 800-900 ISK/LP. Some min/maxers!
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
232
|
Posted - 2014.06.02 19:17:00 -
[35] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote: They are very much min/maxing within a certain effort threshold; not everyone is content to make virtual space money their whole reason for existence, and would rather spend a fraction of the time for a moderately reduced return than poopsock it like you do.
So they are min/maxing over 0.5% LP/hour gain by some faction mod but ignore that moving a few systems away could triple their income. Got it. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
233
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Posted - 2014.06.03 05:46:00 -
[36] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:People don't min/max which LP store they go to, because it is wholly too much effort for a freaking video game. They do, on the whole, use the right ships for the job though, which your flimsy attempts to distract from have missed. So they min/max something marginal (their ship) but ignore something that could double/triple their income. Fully understandable.
Or maybe they bling their ships not to optimize income, but for the mere action of blinging the ship. Which case they'd love to do it with a super.
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
236
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Posted - 2014.06.03 18:19:00 -
[37] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:they don't ignore it though, as i have explained. What you explained is nonsense. They have no need or reason to move from SoE or Thukker Tribe until the majority of the mission runners get brains (= never). These factions have very high LP/ISK conversion for years compared to normal highsec factions. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
240
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 04:40:00 -
[38] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:So one approach to the problem could be creating a selection of rare/restricted luxury items (like clothes, accessories, paints) or even some ships/moduls BPCs that can be aquired only through PvP activities (no way at all to buy it from someone) and used only by those having enough recent kills on killboard. Kill-your-alt rewards?
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
242
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Posted - 2014.06.04 18:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
Guys. Does your discussion have any connection with the topic of this thread (the highsec supers and the "give them goals")? My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
243
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Posted - 2014.06.05 03:58:00 -
[40] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Why is the idea of "get comfortable with shooting that guy in the face" not a valid goal? Because it sounds like PvP and the target audience (the 40%) clearly not interested in that. Otherwise they'd do it. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
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Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
251
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Posted - 2014.06.05 17:46:00 -
[41] - Quote
Scout Vyvorant wrote: You should probably rework how you relate to people and the way you wish to accomplish you interpersonal goals Why? Does their hateposting do anything but bumping this topic?
Let me break it down to you: the purpose of this topic is players providing idea to devs. Not players will decide but devs. Hateposting only gives extra job to ISD. Only intelligent counterarguments would affect dev decision. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
251
|
Posted - 2014.06.06 04:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
Hey, have you seen the news that 49 CCP employees got laid off? It might surprise you but if the subscriber numbers are down, people working to provide us this game get fired.
Don't you think that some harmless silliness like highsec carebears orbiting the gate in a totally useless titan would be better than layoffs?
The only way to increase subscriber numbers is letting people play EVE who are not the "HTFU" kind. That kind is already playing. And the only way to let "WoW kiddies" play without destroying EVE is giving them features that has zero effect on the big scheme but keep them busy. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
256
|
Posted - 2014.06.08 06:18:00 -
[43] - Quote
All kind of "level the raven higher" have the problem of making highsec missioning more lucrative. The last thing EVE needs is even more people leaving nullsec for highsec.
The point is to give highsec players highsec goals, not highsec tools! My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
256
|
Posted - 2014.06.08 18:59:00 -
[44] - Quote
Pete Butcher wrote: A better way to do it would be some kind of achievement system visible in the medals section, like "serpentis slayer" etc. Something to brag about, based solely on pve. But for crying out loud, not hisec titans!
In case of achievements, I agree. But how can they show off? WoW has mounts and pets. Often achievements give mounts and pets. Since a kitten following your ship in space wouldn't fit the lore, we are left with "epic mounts".
Or we can say "HTFU" to each other when the game closes due to lack of subscriptions. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
258
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 18:38:00 -
[45] - Quote
EVE is about flying in spaceships. Anything you do is about getting ships or using them.
An achievement system that gives only points on some UI interface would be ignored, unless it somehow give ships. Now giving useful ships would motivate people to leave nullsec and come highsec. So nothing else left than giving useless ships. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
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